“Any artist lives where he is popular”

Sometimes Alexander Kosolapov is called the most non-Russian among Russian artists. One of the works by Alexander Kosolapov will be on view at the exhibition “Russia” in Guggenheim museum. It will be the first retrospect of Russian art in America, though Alexander doesn’t live in Russia, but in America.

— You were one of the first artists who left the former USSR. Thirty years ago you left Moscow in which you were a very well-educated professional artist.

I got a unique education. After being thirty years in the West I understood that we had got absolutely unique education in Russia. Why was it so unique? We were given a very serious academic school, which was phenomenally expensive. Once Pratt Institute Chancellor told me “Who can afford to study a nude model today?” But we did it. We studied at the Institutes for five or six years. And before that I had finished school of art. I’ve drawn professionally since 10 years old. Sometimes I say that I drew like Angers when I was 15. People laugh, but if you look at those paintings, you’ll see that they were absolutely French.

— Tough you have marvelous academic skills, you didn’t want to draw birches and flowers…

When I want, I draw both birches and meadows but in another contest and meaning as it is accepted in the school of the XXI century. Besides, XXI and XX centuries are absolutely different in approach to art. The XX century is a century of modernism and postmodernism. And as I started my education in the middle of this century, then I heard of modernism, and I met the XXI century as a postmodern artist.

— How did you come to know the backwash of modernism which was so unwelcome in the USSR?

I studied in Moscow art school of the Surikov Institute which was situated in front of the Tretyakov Gallery. We were on friendly terms with nice people who worked in its vaults.  They invited us there. It was there where I first saw Chagall, Kandinsky, Malevich. The museum employees took pictures out of boxes, blew off dust and put them in front of us. I could see and compare. You know, we were taught socialist realism. But in that library we were given some other parameters: as there is not only one model of imaging. There are lots of them. There was also a library of foreign literature where we could find out much from magazines and books.

— When did you start doing what you are doing now? What pushed you?

Pop art “baptized” me. After I finished all possible art Institutions of my former motherland I was thrown to real life and at once understood that official career was not for me.

— Was it so boring for you?

I hated any ideological control. This position led me to what I am doing now. Pop art is somewhere between modern and postmodern. Like other pop artists I experimented with hangers, locks and other welfare items. Then I started to shift smoothly to the social theme. It happened when we prepared for the exhibition with Komar and Melamid with whom I studied at the Stroganov Academy. I studied at the Faculty of Monumental Sculpture and they studied at the Faculty of Design. The exhibition didn’t open. But my first works are rather popular, they are in many catalogues. They are as follows: “Study, son”, “Aurora”. They combine traditions of pop art and socialist realism.

I’d like to remind you that postmodern means use of quotation and some stylistic devices and concrete images of the past but in a new context. In this respect I came up against strange situations. When I pictured “Coca-Cola. It’s a real thing” with Lenin’s portrait, who was the author of the quotation, Coca-Cola’s lawyers took legal proceedings against me. They said that my picture made “Coca-Cola” Company look like a sponsor of communism.

It was a time of “cold war” and any artist appearing in the West after the East, leaped fall out of the frying pan into the fire, out of one ideology into another and again became a whipping boy. Thus my design of “Coca-Cola” became a symbol of the “cold war”. Another design “McLenin” in some measure became a symbol of perestroika, it was reproduced for millions of times, it was sold in Arbat Street and everywhere in the former Soviet Union during perestroika. I think that I am a happy artist as my works are interactive; they are not passive towards the spectator, social environment and political situation. They always make spectators to react.

— Each artist wants to be seen, wants to get response from spectators. But many people don’t understand the real context of your pictures. Because of that conflicts develop not only in America but in Moscow as well. It is proved by the featured story with the exhibition “Caution: religion!”

Everything started with the lection of Slavoj Zizek. He is one of the most famous modern philosophers. He lives in Ljubljana. I met him there and he invited me to his exhibition in New York. His lectures are very popular and are held with a large abundance of people and sometimes it’s even necessary to call police. He is the first philosopher whose lectures drew more spectators than there can be in the auditorium. Zizek spoke about religion. Today it’s clear that Islam, Christianity and Judaism are the most painful points of our history. And it’s clear that confrontation between capitalism and communism is in past now and we live in the situation of confrontation of religions. Zizek said that God and people are not clear to each other today and the contract between God and people is broken. Everything is different, people remain alone and God is alone.

It pushed me to put in Times Square advertisements of “Coca Cola” with Jesus Christ who says: “This is my blood”. We know that Jesus Christ and the Virgin Mary manifested themselves to country people in Spain, in the Balkans. And my God comes to the most crowded place in America, to the world crossroad and manifests himself in advertisements. God of course couldn’t manifest himself in Times Square, but we live during postmodern and God must comply with it.

Moscow magazine “Itogi” (“Results”) which devoted me an article bought a silkscreen copy of the sculpture and then gave it to the exhibition “Caution: Religion!” which was held in the Andrei Sakharov Center unknown to me. Hooligans from militant orthodox groups came to the exhibition and destroyed it. The Sakharov Center filed a case. But a counter-case was filed against the organizers of the exhibition. There was a very serious process which could lead both the exhibition curator and the director of the center Mr. Samodurov to many years imprisonment for sponsoring the exhibition which insulted religious feelings of believers. I didn’t want to be mixed up in this story. I don’t want to take part in inter-religious scandals. And in all interviews I tried to explain that my position is a position of a postmodernist and it can’t insult anyone.

— Let’s return to the seventies. How did you grow into the American culture?

My philosophy has always pushed me to the western culture. That doesn’t mean that I don’t love Russian culture. Of course I love it. An emigrant is a political position, it is of little importance for me and I have never considered myself to be a dissident. But to be an artist in the XX century is a very important process, we had to obtain skills of the new culture. That’s why I didn’t go to Israel or Germany and didn’t stay in France as many of my colleagues did. I went to New York, to this Mecca of modern art to work and develop in this situation which is very difficult, but at the same time very creative and exciting. And I think that I am a real artist. I managed to absorb everything that happened during these years in American fine art. But nevertheless I never refused that I am a Russian artist.

— Full assimilation is probably impossible for an artist…

It’s possible to become an American citizen, but the attempt to change one’s personality and to become an American won’t be successful. An artist doesn’t have a right to refuse his legacy. There are also cosmopolitan forms of art and forms connected with the national “field”. My experience gives me a right to confirm that artists have nationality. Andy Warhol is an American citizen, Eve Cline is a French citizen, though both of them are international. If we speak about Alexander Kosolapov as of an artist, I’d say that he is a modern artist but Russian one. I tried to speak the language of postmodern about Russian problems, the situation in Russia, about Russian culture in the context of internationality. Thus I am an artist drawing Russian culture in the international context.

— Perhaps, your work “Molotov cocktail” may comment on it?

I made it at the end of the eighties, at the beginning of forming a normal market in Russia. “Molotov cocktail” is an imagery advertisement of an imagery product, though during the war “Molotov Cocktail” was used for destroying fascists’ tanks. I thought that it would be a good thing to invent such a drink and put it up for sale in Russia. I didn’t go so far, but I designed the advertisement.

— And what about another “synthesis” in which you “rewarded” the famous “Worker and farmgirl” with the heads of Mickey Mouse and his girlfriend Mini…

In 1937 this sculpture was exhibited at the World Exhibition in Paris in front of the German show room. At that time confrontation between the Soviet and German showrooms symbolized confrontation between Russia and the fascism. Each country wanted to have a higher showroom. Thus they were becoming higher and higher. And at last Russian showroom wined thanks to the “Worker and farmgirl”.

— There will be a sort of “returning” soon. Your Mickey and Mini are going to a big exhibition in Paris.

The first non-US retrospect-research of Walt Disney creative work is going to be held in Palais Royal. His European roots in particular will be studied there. It develops that Disney summoned a huge group of the great European artists, made a phenomenal research of European culture, fabulous culture in particular. He studied works by the brothers Grimm, folklore, symbolism, culture of the XIX century. There will be a section named “Walt Disney and his influence on  modern art”. America will be represented by the works of Warhol and Lichtenstein. As for the Eastern block countries, perhaps I’ll be the only representative. My sculpture was chosen by the jury. By the way, after that the exhibition will go to Montreal.

And there was a funny story about this sculpture. It was exhibited in the “Art-Moscow” Exhibition the year before yesterday and was bought by one of Moscow banks. When I secured an order to make one more copy of this sculpture, I went to the caster. However he said that he won’t make this dirt.

— Soviet people were always very emotional in regard to art. They estimate and act in accordance with the estimation.

That’s right. They have their own opinion and their own criteria. “It’s impossible to buy people’s love” the artist Glazunov used to say.

— You are already an accomplished artist in America and now you are spending more and more time in Moscow. How do you interact with new Russian reality and do you think that it differs much from the previous one?

I’ve started visiting Russia since the beginning of the nineties. At that time I didn’t see way to take part in Moscow artistic life as the situation with fine art in Russia was very strange, chaotic. As I had lived in America for thirty years, I know how difficult it is to realize oneself in the market structure. However, in the modern culture market is a sort of criterion for recognition or non-recognition of an artist. And I set myself a task to take an active part in art market when it occurred in Russia. Now there are galleries, modern art exhibitions including International ones in Russia and my participation is necessary there. You can spend much time in a foreign country, but you’ll be treated like Russian yet. You’ll attract interest as something exotic. Though I must say that Russian public also treats me like some exotic “American Russian”.

— As far as I know, your works are popular in Russia now and very rich people buy them. How does it happen?

I know gallery owners, curators; my works are often exhibited. By the way, this social situation is very interesting. Let’s say, you are in a party where you meet Russian millionaires. Being a member of the market society I must behave according the situation. In New York for instance nobody cares about the way you are dressed. But in Russia everyone are just out of bandbox, as everyone needs to present themselves. Everyone treat you like a foreign guest and listen to what you are saying. And suddenly somebody introduces me in the following way: “This is our classic” or “This is a great Russian artist, you must buy his work”. Not so long ago I met a very rich Russian man, the owner of the phenomenal collection. I showed him sketches of my works and he answered at once: “I buy it”. I was taken aback, and he said: “Go to the kitchen and have mushroom soup”. There was a nice woman from the city of Pskov in the kitchen. We started talking about Pskov, about nature, lakes, a country house. And suddenly I was brought a packet of money. Such funny situations always occur in Russia.

— Are you going to live on two continents?

Any artist lives where he is popular. Today I have a lot of projects both in Russia and in America. Thus I’ll live between New York and Moscow.

Interview by Maya Pritsker

Available at NRS.com